Is it Shove Then Grapple or Grapple Then Shove? Mastering Crowd Control in D&D 5e
The age-old question for aspiring battlefield controllers in Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition (5e): Should you shove before you grapple, or grapple before you shove? The short answer is: grapple then shove is generally the more effective tactic for imposing control on a target. This combo leverages the grappled condition to maximize the impact of the shove action, specifically aiming to pin a target prone. Let’s break down why.
The Grapple Then Shove Advantage
The Power of Zero Speed
The grapple condition immediately reduces a target’s speed to 0. This is crucial because a creature with 0 speed cannot stand up. When you successfully shove a grappled target prone, they cannot simply stand up on their next turn because they lack the necessary movement. This effectively “pins” them to the ground, imposing a significant disadvantage.
The Shove Follow-Through
A shove action typically only forces a creature prone; they can then spend half their movement to stand up. However, a creature already grappled can’t stand up because their speed is already at 0, therefore grapple then shove makes the shove more powerful as it keeps the target prone longer. This leaves them vulnerable to attacks, with advantage on melee attacks against them.
The Tactical Edge
This combination creates a powerful one-two punch. By grappling first, you restrict your target’s movement, making it harder for them to escape or reposition. By following up with a shove to knock them prone, you further handicap them, setting up your party for devastating follow-up attacks. This combo is particularly useful against powerful melee enemies that rely on their movement and attacks.
Why Not Shove Then Grapple?
While you can shove before you grapple, it’s generally less effective. After being shoved prone, a creature can simply use half their movement to stand up, before you grapple them. Grappling a prone target doesn’t provide additional bonuses to the grapple attempt or the grapple itself. It’s not a bad option when you are trying to disengage from the enemy, but if control is your goal grapple then shove is superior.
How to Execute the Grapple-Shove Combo
Using the Attack Action
Both grapple and shove are special melee attacks that can be performed as part of your Attack action. If you have multiple attacks due to a feature like the fighter’s Extra Attack, you can use one of those attacks to grapple and another to shove, all in the same turn. It’s worth noting you are not making a weapon attack and will not trigger many features associated with them, so make sure you are utilizing your resources and attacks correctly.
The Contested Checks
Grappling requires a Strength (Athletics) check contested by the target’s Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check. The same goes for a shove action, which is an opposed check against your Strength (Athletics). It’s important to consider your character’s strengths in Athletics, as well as your target’s weak ability scores. If you are particularly skilled, you might even want to grapple twice to lock down the enemy.
Strategic Positioning
Consider the best position for you and your target to optimize the use of this technique. Ideally, you want to perform this near allies that can capitalize on the prone condition, giving them advantage on melee attacks.
FAQs: Grappling and Shoving
1. Can you grapple and shove in the same turn?
Yes, absolutely! If you have multiple attacks from features like Extra Attack you can replace one attack with a grapple attempt and another with a shove attempt.
2. Does advantage on attack rolls apply to grapple and shove?
No, advantage on attack rolls does not apply to grapple and shove as it is not an attack with a weapon. These are contested ability checks with the attack action, not typical “attack rolls.” You need advantage on skill checks to affect those rolls.
3. Can you grapple or shove with Flurry of Blows?
Flurry of Blows requires unarmed strikes or melee weapon attacks, and grapple and shove are not unarmed strikes or weapon attacks. They are special melee attacks performed using the attack action. However, there are other class features like the monk’s Martial Arts feature that you can use to make grapple and shove attempts with, so long as you meet the requirements.
4. Can you shove an ally out of a grapple?
Yes, you can! Forced movement can break a grapple. You can use your shove action to move a grappled ally, effectively freeing them from their captor. This includes using other features that forcibly move the target.
5. Can you grapple while grappled?
Yes, you can attempt to grapple while grappled, however, it offers little benefit as it does not break the grappled condition. The target of the grapple still has their speed reduced to 0 and it may be better to free yourself first or move out of range to avoid this situation again.
6. What is the disadvantage of the grapple condition?
If the grappler wins the contested check by more than 5, the target is considered restrained. Restrained gives disadvantage to attack rolls and advantage on those attacking them. You can still escape if the grappler has not met this condition, by succeeding on the escape.
7. Does forced movement break a grapple?
Yes, forced movement can break a grapple. If the grappled creature is moved far enough so that they are no longer in reach of the grappler, the grapple ends.
8. Can you grapple two targets?
Yes, you can grapple multiple targets. It only requires one hand to make a grapple attempt, so you can grapple with both hands but you can expect the rolls to be at disadvantage if your DM implements this rule.
9. Can you shove twice in one turn?
A standard character can only shove once per attack action. If you have multiple attacks, those can be used on a shove. Additional actions from feats, features, or spells like Haste or Action Surge could grant you the ability to shove more than once.
10. What are the primary benefits of using grapple or shove?
Grapple and shove are useful in a wide range of scenarios. The benefits range from controlling the mobility of a target, to putting them at a disadvantage when attacking. These tools allow players to dictate the flow of combat, and create openings for follow up attacks for their teammates.
11. Does the Telekinetic feat’s shove break a grapple?
Yes, the Telekinetic feat allows you to use a bonus action to force movement. This can break a grapple by moving either the grappler or the grappled creature out of range, provided they fail their saving throw.
12. Can you attempt to grapple multiple times per turn?
Yes. If you have extra attacks, you can use all of them to attempt to grapple a single enemy or multiple different creatures.
13. Can you grapple more than once?
Yes, you can grapple more than once, and you can attempt to grapple a second target if you have a free hand. There is no rule saying you cannot grapple more than one enemy.
14. Can you use Monk combat maneuvers with Flurry of Blows?
Monks may substitute disarm, sunder, or trip combat maneuvers for unarmed attacks when using Flurry of Blows. This can be a useful way to control a target, especially if your attacks are ineffective.
15. Can you shove a creature grappling you?
Yes, you can attempt to shove a creature grappling you as it is just like any other shove action. This allows you to move them to a dangerous place, or put them prone to try and get out of the grapple.
Conclusion: The Power of Grapple Then Shove
In D&D 5e, mastering crowd control can dramatically shift the balance of encounters. While both grapple and shove are valuable actions on their own, using them in tandem, with grapple before shove, allows you to inflict powerful control on your foes. This is not a replacement for an actual attack, but a strong tactic for forcing enemy combatants into your team’s preferred positions. Understanding these mechanics and their interplay can help you create powerful strategies that turn the tide of battle.